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CNN记者下狠手怼中国学者!复旦教授一句话回击 太精彩!

中国日报网 2019-12-23 10:37:17
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“亚洲多数国家都复制了西方模式,你凭什么认为西方模式在中国就行不通?”面对美国有线电视新闻网(CNN)主持人扎卡里亚的犀利提问,复旦大学教授张维为用一句话,说出中国人制度自信的底气:“因为过去几十年来,中国发展得比其他亚洲国家加起来都要好!”

在第九期“新时代大讲堂”上,张维为发表重磅演讲,分享中国的制度优势将如何赋能粤港澳大湾区。

张维为“新时代大讲堂”英文主旨演讲《中国的制度优势是大湾区发展的巨大动能》(略有删节,中文为译文)

我三年前和CNN主持人扎卡里亚会面时,他问了我一个很尖锐的问题。他说,张教授,你总说西方模式在中国行不通。

但是你看亚洲,几乎所有其他亚洲国家,都采用了西方政治模式,为什么?

In a meeting with Mr. Zakaria, CNN host, about three years ago, he asked me a very sharp question: Professor Zhang, you said repeatedly, the Western model is not working for China. Yet look at Asia, virtually all other Asian countries have adopted the Western political model. Why?

我说,我的答案并不复杂。我的答案很简单。

I said, actually, the answer isn't that complicated. My answer is very simple.

只因为中国在过去的二十年、三十年甚至四十年间,发展得比其他亚洲国家加起来都好。

Simply because China has performed better than all other Asian countries combined over the past two decades, three decades or even four decades.

更重要的是,中国让8.15亿人摆脱了贫困。

And what's more important is China has lifted 815 million people out of poverty.

中国创造了世界上最大的中产阶层,有四亿人。

China has created the world's largest middle class, 400 million people.

CNN记者下狠手怼中国学者!复旦教授一句话回击 太精彩!

△复旦大学中国研究院院长、国家高端智库理事会理事张维为发表演讲。(中国日报记者邓永安/摄)

哪国人权状况好?当然是中国!

同样,你关注整体民意的话,绝大部分中国人认为中国走在正确的道路上。

And again, you look at overall opinion, most people think in China, their country is on the right track.

比如益普索的民调显示,去年有90%的人这样认为。今年,我今早看到的数据是91%。

If we look at the opinion survey conducted by Ipsos, for instance, last year it was 90 percent; this year, I checked this morning, it's 91 percent.

作为对比,英国的民意调查显示,21%的人认为他们的国家在朝正确方向前进。可能主要因为脱欧。在法国这个数据是20%。

As a comparison, if you look at the opinion survey for the UK, 21 percent think their country is on the right track. Mainly because of Brexit, maybe. In France, 20 percent.

有时跟欧洲的朋友开玩笑。我说,你们总说人权,别闹了。哪国的人权状况更好?当然是中国了。

So sometimes I ridiculed my European friends. I said, my goodness, you talk about human rights, come on. Which country has a better human rights situation? Of course China.

地广人多,中国的崛起独一无二

在2G时代,中国没有自己的标准。我们用的是欧洲和美国的标准,在3G时代,中国开始拥有自己的标准。在4G时代

我们采用的是自己的标准。现在中国已成为5G标准的领导者。

At the level of 2G, China did not have its own standard. We use European standard, American standard. At the level of 3G, China began to have its own standard. At the level of 4G, we use our own standard. Now China is a leader in 5G standard.

中国从远远落后于人,到逐渐接近,再赶上甚至引领。这就是一个典型的例子。

So it's a typical example for how from away behind to gradually moving up and then catching up and even surpassing.

现在中美两国,在第四次工业革命中处于前列。只有这两个国家,无论是人工智能、大数据、量子科技等等领域,都处于世界前列。

Now China and the United States are in the premier league of the fourth industrial revolution. They are the only two countries there. Whether in terms of AI, big data, quantum technology... the list goes on.

我认为这归功于中国的国家本性。我觉得很多人其实没有真正理解。

And behind this is what I call the nature of the Chinese state. I don't think many people really understand this.

我认为中国是一个与众不同的国家。我把中国称为文明型国家。这是什么意思呢?在中国悠久的历史中,多个民族最后融合成为一个国家。

I think China is different type of state. I call China a Civilizational State. What does it mean? It means it's an amalgamation of hundreds of states into one over its long history.

中国人口庞大。欧洲国家平均有一千四百万人口,中国的人口数是它的一百倍。

Super large population. In Europe, a country on average has 14 million people. China is size of 100 average European states together.

中国疆域辽阔,几乎等于一个大洲。有悠久的传统,沿袭数千年。无论好坏,这是事实。

Super vast territory, it's a continent. Super long traditions, everything goes back thousands of years. Good or bad, it's fact.

所以这令中国和中国的崛起与众不同,独一无二。

So that makes the Chinese case and the rise of China very different and very unique.

在政治领域,是选拔加选举的制度。西方模式是选举。哪个模式更好?中国模式。

In the political domain, it's called selection plus election, if the Western model is about election. Which model is better? The China model is better.

在经济领域,我称之为混合经济。国家和市场都发挥作用,互为补充。有时两者之间会产生矛盾,但在中央政府层面,会努力让它们互为补充。

And in the economic domain, I call it a mixed economy. The rule of the state and the rule of the market - they complement each other. Sometimes they do have problems within each other yet at the level of central government, they try very hard to make them complement each other.

无论中国模式有什么问题,只有中国经济模式让中国免受经济危机。我们没有遭受过任何金融危机、经济危机。

Whatever problems the China model has, the Chinese economic model is the only one that saved China from financial crisis. We haven't experienced any financial crisis or whatever economic crisis.

在社会领域,国家和社会有机地互动。

And then in the social domain, the state and society are engaged in positive interactions.

不理解中国共产党,就理解不了中国

你要理解中国共产党。西方媒体会把中国称作“共产主义国家”。非常负面,但你要了解中国。中国共产党对中国来说是一种决定性的积极力量。

You have to understand the Chinese Communist Party. In the West, the media would portray China as Communist C capital letter, state, and that's very negative, but you have to understand China. The Chinese Communist Party is the overwhelmingly positive force for China.

这在中国是常识。如果你不理解这一点,就没法理解中国,理解中国的崛起。

This is common sense in China. If you don't understand that, you cannot understand China's rise and China itself.

我会这样来描述西方的模式,我认为这种政治体制是代表部分利益集团的,彼此间竞争。

So this is what I call, in the case of Western model, I would call the political system as a partial interest political party or parties, as they compete with each other.

中国共产党代表着整体利益,它代表着中国绝大多数人民,形成共识,并用共识指导实践。这是中国的独特优势。

In the Chinese case, it's a holistic interest Party. It represents the overwhelming majority of Chinese people and shapes consensus and works on that. So this is China's unique advantage.

我们可以进行大胆改革和长期计划,不仅是对明年的计划,我们可以为下一代、下一个世纪制定计划。

We can make bold reforms and long-term plans, not only plans for the next year, but plans for the next generation and the next century.

香港要繁荣,还得靠这剂中国“药方”

我两个月前在英国。我说,何必举行公投呢?进行公投,脱欧和留欧双方只有3.6%的差距,然后社会变得更加分裂。这不是最佳方式。

I was in the UK just two months ago. I said, why do you bother with this referendum? There is only 3.6 percent difference about Brexit, you have a referendum and then society becomes more and more divided. It's not the best way.

我们有“从群众中来,到群众中去”,再到群众中去作宣传解释,化为群众的意见。再从群众中集中起来,再到群众中坚持下去。这样就能达成共识,全国达成共识,让国家向前进。

We’ve got what we call “from the people, to the people”, one round, “to the people, from the people”, another round, “from the people, to the people” again another round. And then reaching consensus, the whole nation has built up consensus and moves this nation forward.

如果我们看大湾区的整体倡议,你会发现其中清楚提到了如何提高人们的生活水平。这很关键。

We look at the whole proposal for this Greater Bay Area; you'll find a very clear reference to how to improve people's living standards and quality of life. And this is crucial.

CNN记者下狠手怼中国学者!复旦教授一句话回击 太精彩!

西方经常提的是分而治之。中国方法正相反,我们是团结共荣。

And in the West, we often hear what’s called divide and rule. The Chinese approach is just the opposite. Our approaches are called unite and prosper.

我给香港的建议就是团结共荣。别听信西方的分而治之,那样香港会被严重削弱。

So that's my advice to Hong Kong, unite and prosper. Don't follow this Western advice, divide and rule. Hong Kong will be declined sharply if you follow that approach.

大湾区是团结共荣的一个绝佳案例。大多数人都会通过双赢合作受益。

So this Greater Bay Area is a good example of unite and prosper. Most people would benefit through this win-win cooperation.

起草大湾区倡议的整个过程中,协商无处不在。

If you look at the whole process of drafting this Greater Bay Area Initiative, it's all kind of consultations.

我经常建议我的西方朋友,如果想了解中国,就仔细研究决策过程。

So I always counsel my Western friends, if you want to understand China, look at the decision-making process.

倾听内部和外部声音,党内的智囊、党外的智囊,然后进行决策。

The internal, the external, with think tanks within the Party, outside the Party. And then you come to a kind of decision-making.

你需要有远见的战略,不然是行不通的。

And you need forward-looking strategies, otherwise it will not work.

辩证、试验:古老智慧的现代应用

还有当地的竞争与合作。其实有人做过调查。我赞同他们的结论,中国的成功在很大程度上,是县与县竞争与合作的成功。

And then local competition and cooperation. Actually, some people did a serious study; I tend to agree with their conclusion that China's success to a great extent is a success of local competition and cooperation at the county level.

一个主要原因是当地的积极性在竞争中被充分调动起来。县与县的竞争、城市之间的竞争、省际竞争。但中央政府会确保,这些竞争不会变成恶性竞争,而是良性的、双赢的竞争。

One major reason is local initiatives have been brought into full play through local competition, competition at the county level, at the city level, at the provincial level. Yet the central government tried to make sure that it will not become a vicious competition. They will be competitions that produce win-win.

这也是中国哲学中阴阳的思想。两者可以结合,这点我们很擅长。鼓励一定程度的竞争,但要确保大体上是合作的。

This is also part of Chinese philosophy, which is called yin andyang, as it can be combined. We're good at that. You encourage a certain degree of competition, yet you ensure overall cooperation.

还有试验法。中国的方法总是从试点项目开始,然后看看这种方法行不行得通。如果可行,我们将成功经验扩展到其他地区。

And then experimentation. In the Chinese approach we always start with pilot projects and try to see whether they work or not. They work. We extend experience elsewhere. Within this Greater Bay Area Initiative, we have all kinds of pilot projects.

大湾区倡议,就包括各种试点项目。

Within this Greater Bay Area Initiative, we have all kinds of pilot projects.

比如深圳,成为中国特色社会主义先行示范区。还有区域一体化,一个很好的例子是城市群和大湾区。

For instance, Shenzhen is officially given the plan. It's called the pioneering zone for a socialist new city. And then, regional integration, this idea of multiple city clusters and the Greater Bay Area is a great example.

这些城市群发挥了一加一大于二的效应,大湾区将会是新的典范。

These clusters really play a role of what we call one plus one is larger than two and the Greater Bay Area will be a new example of this.

创造经济增长,我们不靠房地产

中国模式强调创造新经济增长点。

And then in the Chinese model we emphasize a lot whether we can create new points of growth.

大湾区就聚焦这些新经济增长点。比如澳门特区,中央政府的规划是让澳门成为旅游休闲中心以及葡语国家交流中心。

The Greater Bay Area focuses on our new points of growth. For instance, for Macao SAR, the central government said in this plan, Macao will become a center of tourism and leisure, as well as a center for Portuguese-speaking exchanges.

CNN记者下狠手怼中国学者!复旦教授一句话回击 太精彩!

具有前瞻性的中国经济,在形势倒逼之下适应和拥抱新科技。

The forward-looking Chinese economy has been forced and compelled to make a readjustment to embrace the new technologies.

人们经常提到中国的经济增速。其实,如果不拥抱新经济,而是固守旧的经济发展模式,过度依赖房地产,中国的经济增速很容易达到8%到9%。

People talk a lot about China's growth rate. In fact, if we do not embrace the new economy, we stay with the old economy. You just build real estate. China’s economy can easily achieve 8 percent or 9 percent growth rate.

但我们不会那样做,我们调整经济结构,沿着科技链条和附加值链条不断往上游走。这就是未来。

But we don't do that. Economic restructuring and moving up in the technological chain and value chain. This is the future.

我认为大湾区会成为中国发展的巨大动能。

I think the Greater Bay Area will become a mega power of success.

非常感谢!

Thank you very much.



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